Geeking Out with...Brian Stack

 By Pam Victor

[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page.]

* * *

As is my unfortunate habit, my introduction to Brian Stack of Conan involved me making an ass of myself. I first contacted Brian while researching Rachel Dratch’s early career in preparation for our live interview. In the ‘90s back in Chicago, Brian and Rachel were in a couple troupes together, Gambrinus: King of Beer and Jazz Freddy. During my research, I asked Brian to comment on a juicy quote I read and for some reason attributed to Armando Diaz. I wrote to Brian, “Armando [described] Gambrinus as, ‘less like a legitimate improv group and more like a drunken, undisciplined softball team…. Jazz Freddy was the complete antithesis of Gambrinus in terms of discipline and focus.’ Though he went on to say they had great t-shirts.”

Brian Stack’s response was polite and generous: “I think that quote might have actually been from an interview I did years ago. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems very familiar. If it was Armando who said that, I certainly agree with every word.”

He was correct. Horrified that I had misquoted Brian Stack to Brian Stack, I apologized. True to his reputation as being the “nicest guy ever,” he was understanding and, yes, very nice.

Stack, the man and the beer 

In addition to being very nice, Brian Stack is enormously talented. During the 1990s heyday of the Chicago improv scene, Brian played on some of the most renown, respected groups at the time, such as Blue Velveeta, Jazz Freddy, and the original cast of The Armando Diaz Theatrical Experience and Hootenanny, which also included such other greats as Armando Diaz himself, Matt Besser, Jimmy Carrane, Kevin Dorff, Rachel Dratch, Tina Fey, Neil Flynn, Noah Gregoropoulos, David Koechner, Adam McKay, Amy Poehler, Ian Roberts, and so many more. (For a complete list of the wildly impressive original and second cast plus some guest monologist highlights, check out this interview.) From this illustrious beginning, Brian went on to work at Second City, both on tour and on the Chicago stage.

Through the bonds formed in Chicago, Brian Stack was hired to fill in for an injured writer on Late Night with Conan O’Brien in 1997. They liked him so much, they kept him on…and apparently those bonds still stay strong, as Brian has worked with Conan O’Brien ever since. Brian Stack worked as an actor, writer, and editor when O’Brien transitioned to The Tonight Show in 2009. And he continues to work now on Conan on TBS. Over the years, Brian Stack has become known for his many popular, recurrent characters, such as The Interrupter, Kitty McBagpipes, Frankenstein, James Sinclair St. Wallins, Brian LaFontaine, and Joe Galliano (John’s brother,) among many others. For this work, Brian has won five Writers Guild Awards for Writing in a Comedy/Variety Series and has been a member of the writing team nominated every year since 1998 for an Emmy (Outstanding Writing for a Variety, Music or Comedy Program,) which they finally snagged in 2007.

Most importantly, Brian Stack is a dedicated husband to comedian Miriam Tolan and father to two lovely girls, Nora and Colette. And a super nice guy.

* * *

PAM VICTOR: My first question usually is about the first moment you fell in love with improvisation. I understand it was love at first sight an intro. class during your senior year at Indiana University?

BRIAN STACK: The brilliantly hilarious Mick Napier lived on my dorm floor at IU and had a great improv group that also included Faith Soloway and Joe Bill. But I never had the guts to audition for it, despite Mick's encouragement.  I used to see them perform though, and it looked like so much fun.  I took a beginners' acting class my senior year just for the hell of it, and one day they had us do an improvised scene as an exercise. I'd never had that much fun before in my life, and I was hooked from then on.

 PAM: What was it about that first scene that struck you?

BRIAN: I think it was the thrill of not knowing what was coming next, and just discovering what was happening as we went along.  All the same things that make me still love improv all these years later, as corny as that sounds.

PAM: Not corny at all. It's so fantastic that you were there for that kismet incubator of comedy people who convened together at Indiana University in the ‘80s. Name some of the people who lived in Mick Napier’s dorm and were at IU at the same time as you. There were Mick Napier, Joe Bill, Faith Soloway...do you remember the others?

BRIAN: I didn't actually meet Joe Bill until years later in Chicago, but I did meet Faith very briefly at a college party, and I remember Mark Sutton being at a lot of parties since he was a friend of Mick's. Everyone called Mark "Howard" back then. I don't remember seeing Mark do improv himself in those days, but he's obviously turned out to be a great improviser.

PAM: Yeah, they roped Mark into Dubbletaque (their troupe) after a while. I think Faith's sister Jill was around too, maybe? Of course, you could have no idea that nearly each and every one of these people would play a pivotal role in improvisation, but what were your impressions of them at the time?

BRIAN: I briefly met Jill Soloway later on when I was going to grad school at UW-Madison.  I had been performing at the Ark Theater, and the late, great Chris Farley was in my very first improv group there. Chris had moved down to Chicago in '87, but he came back to visit Madison in '88, and Jill and James Grace came along with him.  That was the first time I met James, too.  He might've still been a teenager at the time.

PAM:  I hear such wonderful things about Chris Farley as an improviser and all-around nice person to work with. I assume he was dynamic even from the beginning?

BRIAN: It was obvious to everyone who saw Chris perform, even in those days, that he was very special. He had incredible stage presence, and he was one of the funniest people on Earth. I just wish more people could've seen him on-stage in Madison or later on in Chicago at iO or Second City.  I've never seen anyone who could completely wipe out a roomful of people with laughter the way he could at his best.

PAM: I understand you really dove into your studies of improvisation during graduate school in Madison at The Ark. What brought you to Chicago after graduate school?

BRIAN: I'm actually from the Chicago area, so I was basically just heading back home after grad school. I've always admired my friends who moved to Chicago to do improv.  I like to think I would've had the guts to do that myself if I hadn't been from Chicago, but I was lucky enough to be living there already.

PAM: Which teachers and performers most influenced you in your early days?

BRIAN: In the early days, the people that had the biggest impact on me were Mick Napier, Del Close, my fellow Ark performers like Chris, and great performers like Dave Pasquesi and Joel Murray who I saw at ImprovOlympic before I'd ever started performing myself.  Mick had told me about ImprovOlympic, and I took a class with Charna Halpern during the summer between college and grad school.  Just being around those people made a huge impact on me, and I feel very lucky that I got to work with them later on.  They're still very inspiring too, obviously.

PAM: Absolutely. That's a who's who list of the greats. I just saw a couple TJ & Dave shows last weekend that blew my socks off all over again. What were you seeing in Mr. Pasquesi back then that made an impression on you?

BRIAN: I think it was his combination of intelligence and playfulness. He seemed like a cool Philosophy professor who did comedy to help him process all the ideas that were bouncing around in his head. He's also always had a kind of Bob Dylan quality that said to the audience, "This is where I'm going right now.  You're welcome to come along, and I hope you do, but I'm going there regardless."

PAM: Ha. Yeah, that's perfect. 

Were you studying first at Second City and then iO?

BRIAN: When I moved back to Chicago after grad school, I took classes at Second City and iO at the same time.  There was a lot of crossover at that time.  Many of my friends were doing the same thing.

PAM:  It seems like iO resonated with you more strongly, no? Or was it just circumstance?

BRIAN: I think both places had a very big impact on me for different reasons.  It was always my dream to work at Second City, so even taking classes there was very thrilling, especially at first when I had my Level 1 class in the Mainstage space.  I don't think that happens a lot nowadays. 

iO was where I first met many of my lifelong friends and fellow improv performers though.  It's impossible to overstate how much I owe to that place on a personal and professional level.

PAM: It really does seem like your time at iO proved to be the basis for your professional life.

BRIAN:  Absolutely. I've ended up working with so many iO people later on, and not just at Conan.

PAM:  Like who? Where? I know you work with Brian McCann and Kevin Dorff at Conan…

The Late Night writing staff in the late '90s

BRIAN:  Well, at Conan I've worked with Andy Richter, Jon Glaser, as well as Brian and Kevin. Outside of our show, I've worked with countless others in various ways here and there, including the brilliant Tina Fey and Amy Poehler.  My association with the UCB folks like Amy, Adam McKay, Horatio Sanz, Ian Roberts, Matt Walsh, and Matt Besser can all originally be traced to the iO-Chicago days, too.

PAM:  Wowwee-kazowee. What a lucky man you are. Can you name some of the fantastic teams you were on in Chicago?

BRIAN:  I do feel incredibly lucky to have been around Chicago during the late 80's and early to mid 90's.  It was pretty insane when I look back on the people I was lucky enough to watch and work with back then. 

I really loved my old iO team which also included Matt Walsh's brother Pat, and

iO team Bouquet of Flesh:
Brian Stack, Beth Cahill, Jenna Jolovitz, Pat Walsh,
Dennis Sheehan, Pete Rodriguez, and E.J. Peters

Betty Cahill among others.  I'm also very proud to have been part of the group Jazz Freddy which included my wife Miriam Tolan, Dave Koechner, Pete Gardner, Rachel Dratch, Pat Finn, Carlos Jacott, Kevin Dorff, Noah Gregoropoulos, Jimmy Carrane, and others.  That group led directly to several of us working at Second City, and I loved working with all those people so much.

[Readers, stay tuned for a mini-Geeking Out with… about Jazz Freddy, which was inspired by my time with Brian Stack and our discussion of this influential group.]

PAM: You’ve described the early ‘90s in Chicago as a kind of golden age in improvisation comedy. I’d love to hear about that experience for you.

BRIAN: It was a very inspiring time. There were lots of great groups around like The Family, Ed, and Film Dome, and everyone came out to see each other's shows. 

I

Jazz Freddy back in '92 at Live Bait Theatre:
Cast included (but not pictured in this order):
Chris Reed, Dave Koechner, Pat Finn,
Miriam Tolan, Pete Gardner, Stephanie Howard,
Susan McLaughlin, Rachel Dratch, Carlos Jacott,
Noah Gregoropoulos, Kevin Dorff,
Jimmy Carrane, and Brian Stack.

remember the crowd being full of improvisers on the opening night of Jazz Freddy, and I'll always be grateful for that kind of support.  And over at Second City in those days, you'd see amazing people like Farley, Pasquesi, Stephen Colbert, Steve Carell, Amy Sedaris, Jane Lynch, and other greats.  I can't believe that at the time they were just the local entertainment.

 PAM: That's amazing. And really incredible when you think that you went to college with Mick, Joe, Mark, and Faith. You are like the Forrest Gump of improv.

BRIAN:  I do often feel like ol' Forrest in many ways.  I should probably be sitting at a Chicago bus stop rambling on and on to strangers.

PAM: I think this interview is the virtual equivalent of a bus stop. Sans chocolates, sadly.

BRIAN:  I do wish I had some chocolates, but my daughters seem to have eaten them all.

PAM:  Dang. They'll do that. My daughter is 14. How old are yours?

BRIAN: My oldest daughter Nora is 15, and my younger, Colette will turn 11 next month.  I can't believe that.

Brian and his beautiful family
(taken before they were old enough to eat all the chocolates)

PAM:  Speeds up there once they hit 10, doesn't it?

BRIAN:  You're right. Time's really flying by.

PAM:  Speaking of time, back to the '90s. I know about The Family, which basically was the iO team from which the UCB Theatre was born. But I don't know much about Ed and Film Dome. What were those groups?

BRIAN:  Ed was a very influential group that included John Lehr, Chris Hogan, Carlos Jacott, Pete Gardner, and my wife Miriam. They took long-form into actual theaters, and certainly paved the way for groups like Jazz Freddy and the Family.  Their combination of discipline and playfulness was very inspiring.  Before that, it was rare for an improv group to get together for workshops more than once a week.  Ed and the later spin-off show Film Dome proved that you could get great results from putting in the time off-stage.

PAM:  What do you mean bringing long form into actual theaters?

BRIAN:  I just mean that it was much more common in those days for improv groups to perform in bars or cabarets. Ed performed their second run at the Remains Theatre where plays were typically performed.  Pete Gardner liked the results of that so much, he wanted Jazz Freddy to also perform in a theatre, and that's what we did at Live Bait, a wonderful little place.

 PAM:  Oh, I see. Who was the director/guiding force of Ed?

BRIAN:  The guiding force behind Ed was Jim Dennen.  He was a very interesting guy, and he and Del Close developed a kind of mutual respect for each other in those days.

PAM:  Cool. How did you come to join Blue Velveeta?

BRIAN: I used to sit in now and then with Blue Velveeta when they were an ImprovOlympic team, but I later worked with those guys more regularly when they split off to form The Comedy Underground in '91 or so.  I also did shows with them at the Improv on Wells Street before Jazz Freddy started.

PAM:  It sounds like Blue Velveeta performed both long and short form, is that right?

Backstage at ASSSCAT in NY
Lennon Parham, Jack McBrayer, Amy Poehler,
Horatio Sanz, Miriam Tolan, Alan Zweibel,
John Lutz and Rachel Dratch. 

BRIAN:  We did the long-form Harold at ImprovOlympic, but there were a lot of short-form things in our later shows.  I must say, even though I kind of lost interest in short form later on, I had such a great time doing those shows.

PAM:  And who was in Blue Velveeta with you? Was that post-Susan Messing era?

BRIAN:  When I sat in with them at iO, Susan was still in the group, but later on at Comedy Underground I worked with Jay Leggett, Mitch Rouse, Brian Blondell, Kevin Dorff, Andy Richter, Jimmy Carrane, Brendan Sullivan, and Dave Koechner.  At the Improv, it was usually just me, Jay, Brian, Mitch, and Kevin. 

I didn't work at the Improv very long, though.  I didn't really enjoy working in a stand-up club, so I went over and joined Dave, Kevin, Rachel Dratch, Noah Gregoropoulos, Andy, Jimmy and others in a fun, drunken joke of a group called Gambrinus: King of Beer.  It was named after a legendary Czech king who supposedly beat Attila the Hun in a drinking contest.  It was basically the antithesis of Jazz Freddy in many ways in terms of the discipline and all, but it was a lot of fun.

PAM: You described that group to me as “a drunken joke of a group.” When we were chatting earlier, you remarked about the transition between Gambrinus and Jazz Freddy, “It's funny that Gambrinus came right before Jazz Freddy. It was kind of like going out on a three-night bender with friends just before you go to college with those same friends. A very fun college, though.” [Dear readers, I must note that it was very satisfying to quote with accuracy Brian Stack to Brian Stack at that moment.]

BRIAN:  That's right, yes.  In many ways, it was the perfect thing to do just before Jazz Freddy since it was such an undisciplined mess.  When Pete Gardner brought his Gambrinus/iO friends together with his Ed friends to form Jazz Freddy, we all felt ready to get more serious about the work, while still not taking ourselves seriously.

PAM: The more I read about the transition from one to another, it seems like it was necessary to move through Gambrinus to get to Jazz Freddy. Do you see it that way?

BRIAN: I do, yes.  I think doing something as playful but unfocused as Gambrinus made us appreciate how rewarding it was to do Jazz Freddy right after that.

PAM: These groups seemed to have a formed outside of iO. Is that right? Was that common in the early ‘90s, to form freelance teams?

BRIAN: In many ways, I feel like I've never left iO since I've worked with so many iO people even after I stopped doing Harolds.  Back then, though, it was pretty typical for groups to splinter off and try things on their own, especially since iO didn't get a permanent home until '95 or so.  It was great to go back there at that time to do shows like The Armando Diaz Experience.  It's so great that the Armando Show is still going after 18 years, both in Chicago and LA.

PAM: Tell me about what made Jazz Freddy so unique.

BRIAN: I'm not sure how truly unique the show was, but it was incredibly rewarding.  We were basically just trying to do the best scene work we could do.  Luckily, we had such a great mix of people in the group.  The chemistry was special because were all pretty different from one another.

PAM:  Were there other groups doing slow, reality-based scenes in Chicago or was Jazz Freddy the first?

BRIAN:  I saw a lot of really slow, patient work at iO before then actually, and as I mentioned before, the group Ed helped pave the way for patient improv work being done in a theatre. But it's been very nice to hear from people I admire, like Craig Cackowski or the guys in The Family, that Jazz Freddy inspired them to try new things on their own.

PAM:  What do you think they were seeing that inspired them?

BRIAN:  Based on what I've heard from people like Craig, it was our combination of patience, support, listening, and playfulness.  We always tried to find the humor from the characters or situation instead of pushing for laughs.

PAM: You left Jazz Freddy when you were offered a spot on the Second City touring company, GreenCo. True to form, your castmates during those times were pretty stellar, such as Pat Finn, Suzy Nakamura, Adam McKay, Neil Flynn, plus, for a time Rachel Dratch, Jon Glaser, and Amy Poehler…and then there was that woman named Miriam Tolan who would become extremely significant in your personal life. What a team! It sounds like you had a blast together. Can you recall some highlights?

BRIAN: As much as I loved doing the resident company shows at Second City later on, many of my fondest Second City memories come from my Touring Company days. I'll always be grateful that I got to tour with all those hilarious people. 

There are too many wonderful memories to name here, but one that stands out is the time that Steve Carell came down to visit his girlfriend (now wife) Nancy Walls when we were doing a month of shows in Dallas. Steve wasn't famous yet, so no one in the audience recognized him when he pretended to be an audience member giving a suggestion in the improv set.  Adam McKay ended up calling him up onstage and "forcing" him to improvise.  Steve's such a brilliant actor, that you'd have sworn he was just a nervous guy being dragged out of his comfort zone.  Adam even tackled Steve at one point when he tried to leave the stage.  I was literally crying with laughter in the wings.

PAM:  That's a great story!

BRIAN: Glad you liked it, thanks!

PAM:  Was Adam McKay a big influence on you as a writer?

BRIAN: Definitely. In addition to being one of the funniest people I've ever met, Adam also approaches writing and generating ideas with so much enthusiasm that it's very contagious. He's obviously brought the same sense of playful anarchy to movies like Anchorman, and it's no mystery to me why so many brilliant comedians want to work with him.

PAM: Most interviews I've heard or read about you refer to what a genuinely nice guy you are. At least in the improv world, there are a lot of genuinely nice people, so you must be off the charts nice.

BRIAN: I really appreciate that people think I'm nice, but I'm always a little surprised when people comment on that.  I know so many nice people in comedy. I remember Steve Carell talking about this very same thing on Fresh Air.

PAM:  That's why I mention it. There must be something especially special about your brand of niceness. Does it bug you that you're typecast that way?

BRIAN:  Well, thanks. I do appreciate that.  Maybe my red hair and freckles make me seem even less threatening.  It doesn't bug me to be seen that way, but I'm grateful that I've often gotten to play characters that are nothing like me at all.  It's more fun to mix it up.

PAM:  I recently came upon a very adorable Second City sketch video of you and your wife. The "role playing" one. Do you remember it?

BRIAN:  I do remember that, yes.  Miriam was very funny in that scene.  She's always cracked me up.

PAM: You were pretty funny in it too, Brian.

BRIAN: Thanks a lot.

PAM: I would love if you would tell the story of how you proposed to Miriam backstage at Second City, if you would be so kind.

Backstage at ASSSSCAT (NY):
Brian Stack, Jack McBrayer,
Miriam Tolan, John Lutz

BRIAN: Miriam and I were both still in the Second City Touring Company, but Miriam was understudying in the Second City mainstage show on New Year's Eve, and I went backstage to see her at intermission. I had been planning on proposing to her one of those days, but I just impulsively blurted out a proposal right then and there in a dimly lit backstage stairwell filled with garbage bags. 

Luckily, she said yes, but I could've obviously picked a better spot.  In some ways, though, it was very fitting since we'd originally met in Second City classes a few years before.  Because of my proposal, Miriam was a little late for her call in the second act, and Scott Adsit jokingly asked her, "What did he do, ask you to marry him or something?"  Yes, he did.

PAM:  Awww! Yay! Was it hard to score the girl back then? There was a heck of a lot of competition.

BRIAN: I'm still pretty surprised she gave me the time of day.  Maybe our mutual 100% Irish heritage helped tip the scales in my favor.  She stuck with her own kind.

PAM:  That's so sweet. I love to watch couples do comedy together. I'm such a sap.

 BRIAN:  It's amazing how many improv couples we've known over the years.  I'm often reminded of that when we see all our old Chicago and NY friends at backyard barbecues here in LA.

PAM: I’ve heard that for some people, LA is re-creation of their Chicago lives – complete with the same, longtime friends and co-workers – except with palm trees.

Amy Poehler and Tina Fey
from back in their iO days

I don’t know why, but it amazes me how improvisers tend to bring in other improvisers they’ve worked with before as they move into screen comedy. Tina Fey is a great example of this trend, having brought in folks she worked with at Second City and iO, like Amy Poehler, Scott Adsit, John Lutz, Jack McBrayer, Rachel Dratch, and many more. I suppose it’s because people like to work with people they like. Your career certainly has had the same Chicago-centric pattern. I am wondering if there is something specific to improvisation and the collective creation of comedy on the fly that has something to do with it, do you think? Maybe a bit of bunker mentality that develops and bonds some people for life?

BRIAN:  I think you're absolutely right about that.  There's an incredible bond that forms between people that have been in the improv trenches together, and an incredible level of trust that forms.  It doesn't surprise me at all that people like Tina or others like Amy Poehler work that way. I see the same kind of thing with UCB people on shows like Childrens Hospital. People obviously tend to reach back and recommend the people that they know are really funny, and very fun to work with.

PAM: Oh, yeah. That UCB generation of Paul Scheer, Jason Mantzoukas, Rob Huebel definitely pull up their own as they move up.

BRIAN:  They sure do. And I think back to Stephen Colbert recommending Carell for The Daily Show, or Adam McKay hiring Tina at SNL.  As Amy Poehler once told an aspiring improviser who asked for advice, "Don't expect to own anything or make any money for years, but if you're talented and you don't give up, sooner or later one of your friends will give you a job."

PAM: Ha! That’s great. It's also a good reminder to be a NICE person no matter what level you're working at.

Mr. Stack and Ms. Poehler
in her Conan dressing room in 2012

BRIAN:  That's very true. It's great to see how some of the nicest people are often the most successful, too.  I was lucky enough to do a little part on Parks and Rec recently, and it was so obvious to see how much everyone on that set genuinely loves Amy, and with very good reason.  She's as warm and generous as she is hilarious, and that's true of so many of my favorite performers.

PAM:  Amy's adorable. So fun to watch. Sounds like a dream gig.

(Awkard segue alert:) You’ve been at working with a lot of the same people from your iO and Second City days for a couple decades now, primarily at the various incarnations of Conan O’Brien’s shows. Let’s talk about how improvisation itself, as well as the skills it hones, helps you develop material on Conan.

BRIAN: Our show has always had a strong improvisational feel.  Conan and Andy both come from improvisational backgrounds themselves, and some of our favorite moments on the show are when things don't go according to plan. In many ways, our show has always felt like an extension of the Chicago improv community, and not just because of all my old improv friends like Kevin Dorff, Jon Glaser, and Brian McCann have worked on the show.

PAM:  Do improvisers work collaboratively differently than other comedic writers?

BRIAN:  That's a good question. I've been lucky enough to have a great collaborative writing relationship with writers from non-improvisational backgrounds too, but there's a certain comfort level that comes when you're doing a live bit and the other people involved are experienced improvisers. 

PAM: It seems like there is a lot of room at your show for play and experimentation. And failure. Those are certainly improv-specific skills.

BRIAN: Definitely.

PAM: Many characters have been developed by "accident" it seems.

BRIAN:  That's true. For example, once before a writers' meeting, I pretended to shoot Brian McCann in the leg.  He sang a happy little song on the spot about having "bullet-proof legs," so I shot him in the chest and he fell off his chair, dead. Apparently, only his legs were bulletproof. Neither of us would've thought of that insane concept at our computers, but it went on the show the next night.

PAM:  As Susan Messing says, "A mistake is your greatest comic gift." Actually, I'm probably paraphrasing. She may have said, "A mistake is your greatest gift, you beautiful bitches."

Let’s talk about the working environment and process at Conan and how it compares to other shows that create sketch. From the way you describe it, Conan seems like a less intensely competitive environment than what I’ve heard about SNL. Is that just your experience or do you think it's a little less competitive at Conan because there is only one central, on-screen talent?

BRIAN:  Since SNL just does the one show per week, there's obviously a lot more competition when it comes to which sketches get on the show. If we really like something, and we have too many things in one show, we can usually just toss the unused stuff in a later show. I know SNL can sometimes do that too, but not as often as they might want to.

PAM: The other day, I was debating with a very experienced improviser about why people tend to get hooked on this art form despite that it pays bupkis and doesn’t produce a lasting product that might lead to great professional opportunities. For example, you work really hard in quality, paying comedy jobs, but you still seem to try to find time to improvise. What it is about improvisation that brings you back?

BRIAN:  I think it's the same thing that hooked me right from the start.  When you're with the right people, and improv is really working, there's nothing like it.  I remember someone asking Amy Poehler why she still did free improv at UCB when she had already "made it," and she looked at them like they were insane.

PAM:  Hahaha!

BRIAN:  These days I don't get a chance to do improv very often, but I still love to do it when I can, and it's still just as fun for me as ever.  It's nice that I still get to improvise with many of the people I came up with too.

PAM: Where do you perform when you get a chance? Weren't you recently on Armando at iO West?

BRIAN: I did do an Armando Show recently, yes. It's so gratifying that a show we started doing in '95 is still going strong in Chicago, and now here in LA.  I also do the occasional "Joel Murray and Friends" show at iO-West with old iO-Chicago friends, and some ASSSSCAT or Gravid Water shows at UCB.  And I've done a couple improvised "Dead Authors" shows at UCB with the hilarious Paul F. Tompkins.  He may be primarily known as a stand-up, but he's a born improviser, too.

PAM:  I don’t know if you agree, but I often tell young improvisers working on “making it” in screen comedy to work on their writing as much as possible by taking classes and then just plain sitting down to write sketches and getting them on stage or online. But may be just talking out my ass since I've never been on national TV. That's just what I observe. What is your advice to improvisers who hope to move into TV?

BRIAN:  I think your advice is right on the money. I would also advise young performers that if they do what they love right now as an end in itself, and it's much more likely to become a means to an end. As corny as it sounds, it really shows when people have genuine joy in their work, and those are the people that other people want to work with in other ways later on, maybe even on TV or in film.

PAM:  I know that you loved The Interrupter character. Did you know there was a Facebook page to bring him back? Is that even a possibility now on the new show?

The Interrupter 

(Miriam appears at the end of this sketch!)

BRIAN: I did not know about the Facebook page, but I'm flattered that anyone took the trouble to do that. I don't think we'd have the legal option to bring him back since our Late Night characters are technically "owned" by NBC, but maybe it's for the best. I always loved doing those old characters, but I'm glad they never felt overused or stale.

PAM:  Is there a character that you’re particularly enjoying writing for and doing these days?

BRIAN:  Among other things, I really enjoy working with Todd Levin on the crappy knock-off songs that I sing as the awful lounge singer in "Basic Cable Name That Tune."  It's fun to toss in little ad libs at Conan during the live taping, like, "I am God's worst mistake," just to see how he reacts.  I'm thankful that he actually encourages that kind of unscripted riffing around.

PAM: Sounds like you all are having an awful lot of fun over there.

That's always nice to see.

BRIAN: It's always been a great place to work, and I don't take that for granted at all.  Some days are better than others, but I'm very grateful to have gotten to work with so many great people over the years.

Brian as Frankenstein and Tom Hanks
at Late Night

[All photographs (except for the Gambrinus) in this piece come from the collection of Brian Stack...because he's a really nice guy who sent a whole slew of fantastic photos to me. Thanks, Brian!]

* * *

Read Geeking Out with...Susan Messing  
in which Susan says,
"I am not for the faint of heart, 
but if you can handle the messenger 
you'll definitely get the message."

Catch up on past improv geek-a-thons:
Geeking Out with…Dave Pasquesi  of TJ and Dave

...David Razowsky of iO West

…with Joe Bill of BASSPROV

...Charna Halpern, co-founder of iO Theatre

...Jimmy Carrane of The Improv Nerd podcast

and many more!

And "like" the "Geeking Out with..." FACEBOOK PAGE please.

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she produces The Happier Valley Comedy Show in western Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies, and tea on her blog, "My Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page! And get it all at www.pamvictor.com. 

Geeking Out with....Scott Adsit and John Lutz: The Hardcore, Kickass TALK SHOW

by Pam Victor

As much fun as these photos look, I had exponentially more fun interviewing Scott Adsit and John Lutz at NBC's "30 Rock" at the  2013 Chicago Improv Festival. Thank you to John H. Abbott, improviser photographer extraordinaire.

John Lutz, Scott Adsit, and my delight
[Copyright John H. Abbott, Photographer for CIF]

Geeking Out with...John Lutz and Scott Adsit
[Copyright John H. Abbott, Photographer for CIF]

Geeking Out with...John Lutz and Scott Adsit
[Copyright John H. Abbott, Photographer for CIF]

John Lutz, Scott Adsit, and Pam Victor
post-Geeking Out with...
[Copyright John H. Abbott, Photographer for CIF]

At CIF, I also had the great pleasure of Geeking Out with... Joe Bill, Jon Barinholtz, Rob Belushi, and Senja Merilainen.

*

If you'd like to bring 

Geeking Out with: The Hardcore, Kickass TALK SHOW 

to your festival, 

drop me a line. 

*

Though I'm sorry if you couldn't be there for this one-time-only geek out, I offer you a delicious sampling of improvlusciousness below:

Geeking Out with…Dave Pasquesi  of TJ and Dave

...David Razowsky of iO West

…with Joe Bill of BASSPROV

…Jimmy Carrane of the Improv Nerd podcast

…Susan Messing of Messing with a Friend

and many more!

And "like" the "Geeking Out with..." FACEBOOK PAGE please.

And, hey you guys! I actually have my own website now:
www.pamvictor.com 

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she produces The Happier Valley Comedy Show in western Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies, and tea on her blog, "My Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page. And to find the whole kit and caboodle in one place, visit www.pamvictor.com. 

Geeking Out with...Close Quarters

By Pam Victor

[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page.]

* * *

“They left us with a very messy now. A sloppy now,” bemoans TJ Jagadowski’s character in the mostly improvised film, Close Quarters. The messiness of life is under investigation in this film, directed by Jack C. Newell and produced by Newell and his partners Ron Falzone and Joe Rosengarten (the team of creators behind the short film, Typing.) Close Quarters is a compelling series of improvised, two-person scenes by an all-star cast of Chicago performers revolve around the lone script-based storyline of a couple of baristas in a coffee shop played by Erica Unger and Seth Unger. (If you'd like to watch the movie before dipping your spoon into this article, you can find it here for a very modest fee.) The stories that unfold in the film cover a mix of sex, birth, death, love, hate, truth, lies, divorce, marriage, friends and enemies. And coffee. The very essence of the “sloppy now” of life itself.

Can we talk about the be-still-my-heart cast, a stellar array of improvisers with whom I’ve deeply loved Geeking Out with… or very much hope to soon?! To name but a few to wet your whistle, the film features improvised scenes by David Pasquesi (TJ and Dave) and Holly Laurent (Second City Mainstage), TJ Jagodowski (TJ and Dave) and Kate Duffy (iO Theatre, Second City), Susan Messing (Messing with a Friend) and Jim Carlson (iO, Second City), Jet Eveleth (iO) and Tim Kazurinsky (Saturday Night Live.) Noah Gregoropoulos….Ohmygod. I can go on and on, but I have to stop myself for the sake of time and over-stimulation.

Due to the fact that I’m a shameless improvisation harlot, I could not resist whetting my appetite a bit with some of the actors of Close Quarters before getting hardcore geeky with the film’s director and co-producer, Jack C. Newell. So enjoy a quick succession of whambamthankyouma’am conversational hors d’oeuvres with Kate Duffy, Susan Messing, Jet Eveleth, Colleen Doyle and David Pasquesi of Close Quarters before settling into Mr. Newell’s delicious main course.

* * *

In Close Quarters, Kate Duffy was paired with TJ Jagodowski in an intimate scene in which they play two friends forced to confront difficult realities of their spouses' affair, played in a separate scene by David Pasquesi and Holly Laurent. While watching the movie, I firmly concluded that Kate Duffy was the luckiest woman on earth during the filming process. The scene, her work, and her scene partner are that luscious.

PAM: I found the scene between you and TJ Jagodowski to be incredibly tender and compelling. I could have watched a whole movie of your story! Can you tell me about what improvising that scene felt like from your end?

Kate Duffy in Close Quarters

KATE DUFFY: Well, it was a very interesting process. I didn't know anything about the scene, my partner, or the movie when I arrived on set. We were given our goal for the scene when we arrived, and both TJ and I thought it was going to be really challenging to accomplish it with honesty.

We improvised for about 2-3 hours with two cameras on us. There were not a lot of takes. They just really let us go and find it, so in that way it felt less like a typical movie shoot and more like long form that happened to have cameras.

TJ and I have a long and interesting history together, so it felt easy and comfortable. I felt like we brought a lot of our friendship to that scene and I'm not sure I could have done that with anyone else. For me, I was worried that we would not be able to find the arc of the scene in a truthful way; but once we started, it just happened naturally. Two hours felt like two minutes, which I find true for any good show. You lose yourself in it and time seems to stop.

*

Ms. Messing

Even with a performance confined to the monitor a computer screen, the incomparable Susan Messing succeeds in blasting exuberantly through Close Quarters with her acting, improvising, and soaring spirit. She and Middle Age Comeback’s Jim Carlson play warring spouses receiving a virtual therapy session from their shrink, played by the fantastically deadpan Bill Arnett of iO Theatre mainstay team 3033, who is in the café wordlessly watching Messing and Carlson explore their hatred and love for each other via individual computer screens. (Just watch the movie. You’ll get what I mean.)

PAM: Congratulations on your Best Actress win for this movie at the "Best of the Midwest Awards." You often quip about how you weren't a good actress - guess the world disagrees! What was your reaction to the nomination and the win?

SUSAN: It confounded me that I was nominated for it. I thought Pasquesi, Kate, Holly, and frankly anyone else, did as good if not a better job than I did. And I am not being modest. I remember when I walked out of the first screening thinking that I was grateful that I didn't seem to fuck up their movie. Seriously.

It was an ensemble film start to finish, and I just felt fortunate to participate. So to be acknowledged was awkward and made me completely reevaluate what "good" is. As improvisers, we certainly don't look back and view what we've done and if it's good or not. Rather, we move on and try to capture once again that great feeling we had from having an awesome time on stage.

PAM: Your scene with Jim Carlson seemed particularly challenging since you were basically improvising into the camera rather than playing against him. During the shooting, were you in the same room or really improvising virtually? How was that experience for you?

SUSAN: It was absolutely painless on my end. It's the poor editor that I worried about. (Ask Jack, but I think that there was over 500 hours of stuff to sift through and decide what to put in. Yikes. Almost insurmountable!!) 

My part was easy - no more than a little over an hour. Jim was seated across from me, and we both had computer screens in front of us. I think that the only weird part was making sure to look at the screen and not at him. Jack gave us some simple direction of basic plot points and then just let us rip. Staying within the context of what he wanted was pretty easy since I assume if we went way out of bounds Jack would have reined us in. Both Jim and I left the experience saying that it was one of the easiest and most fun scenes we've ever done. Like I said before, I assume the horror was in the editing.

I was happy to have had the experience and simply wish that my hair looked nicer.

*

Jet Eveleth

Known and loved for her rubber-faced, limber-limbed cast of characters, Jet Eveleth of iO’s supergroup The Reckoning gets to play against type in Close Quarters. Jet inhabits the role of a dour, suicidal woman who may find something to live for after all when she encounters a stranger, enchantingly played by SNL’s Tim Kazurinsky.

PAM: First of all, I have to say that your scene with Tim Kazurinsky was one of my favorites. It was so tender and authentic. You two seemed to develop a real connection in the scene, which I found especially intriguing given that so many of the other improvisers were working with people they've improvised with many, many times. Did you know Tim before the movie? Had you ever worked together before?

Tim Kazurinsky in Close Quarters

JET: I had not worked with Tim before, but he was so warm and present, it made the process really enjoyable. His talent and experience are so evident and the scene unfolded very naturally.

PAM: Given that you were improvising in front of a camera, you two did an impressive job making the "discovery" aspect of improv look natural and authentic. Can you tell me about that part of the process for you?

JET: We were given character descriptions and the basic arc of the scene, but overall Jack really trusted us to find the moments through improvisation. I loved this process of creation and I hope this is the beginning of a larger movement in film.

PAM: They gave you a juicy challenge to play a very depressed person in comic movie, which I think you did successfully without seeming kooky or over the top. Can you tell me about how you approached the character?

JET: My material was dark, and lucky for me I don't see comedy as only the light side of life. I've always been attracted to tragic clowns like Chaplin and Ball and to the dark comedy in a show like Deadwood. I view comedy as a unique entrance on the full spectrum the human experience.

*

Colleen Doyle

The immensely talented Colleen Doyle, of iO’s acclaimed duo Dummy, plays a woman coming from a funeral with three other friends of the deceased, played by Gregory Hollimon (Second City, Strangers with Candy,) Linda Orr (Carl and the Passions/iO, Chicagoland/Annoyance,) and iO foundation rock and legendary improviser and teacher Noah Gregoropoulos.

PAM: What was your experience of improvising from a plot outline as opposed to the usual purely improvised work you do on stage?

COLLEEN DOYLE: The scene had a very loose outline. We truly just had a conversation. It was incredibly easy to do. The other actors were so funny and their points of view were so interesting that it was easy to just react. We riffed on each other's honest opinions and experiences.

PAM: Can you tell me how you approached your improv for this movie?

COLLEEN: The basic tenets of good improv: listening, agreement, having a point of view, and making choices all helped to make it work.

*

David Pasquesi

Improv heavyweight David Pasquesi goes toe-to-toe (and groin-to-groin) with Holly Laurent in this movie. They play lovers trapped in the bathroom after an illicit encounter, while their spouses await their return upstairs in the coffee house. Their scene together brings to life an emotionally tragic path of errors.

PAM: Bringing improvisation to the screen is particularly challenging for many reasons. Your movie with TJ Jagodowski, Trust Us, This is All Made Up, successfully captures the magic of an improv set, in my opinion. Now that you've had the experience of shooting two improvised movies, what elements do you suggest filmmakers incorporate in order to be most successful in bringing improv to the screen?

DAVID PASQUESI: I have had some experience in improvising on camera. Trust Us was really just us doing our show for an audience, and the camera was not the primary observer. I did a show with/for Mitch Rouse and a couple other guys called Factory. It was a six episode comedy series for Spike. All dialogue was improvised, very much like Close Quarters. We had a rough outline of the story points that needed to be addressed. In Close Quarters, I found it easier because Jack was there, watching and guiding both the story and emotional tone.

As to suggestions for directors for improvised films, Be good to your actors. Like Jack.

PAM: Did you engage different improv "muscles" in your approach to performing for the screen rather than on stage? 

DAVID: I do not think of there being much of a difference between improvising on stage and film. You do a little less for a camera, but I don't do a whole lot on stage either - at least I try not to.

In Close Quarters, I was only responsible for my part of the scene - very freeing. Also, I had the confidence to try stuff because I trusted Jack wasn't going to use the humiliating shit. Only the better things. And trusted that Holly would be game for anything. We had a good time, I think.

At least I did.

PAM: Your particular scene with Holly Laurent was the most intimate and intense of the movie. I understand it was shot in a small bathroom with no breaks allowed. Aside from "hot and smelly," can you tell me what that experience was like for you?

DAVID: I did not know that breaks were not allowed, only that we didn't take any because we didn’t seem to need to. Had I known that breaks were not allowed, I would have insisted we take one. Or two.

I liked the tiny space. It kind of does some of the work for you. We were right up in each other’s business…literally and figuratively.

* * *

Jack C. Newell

Finally, we arrive at our succulent main course, Jack C. Newell, director and co-producer of Close Quarters, director/writer/producer of Typing as well as several other award winning short films that have screened across the United States and abroad, including the 2007 and 2010 Cannes Film Festival Short Film Corner, Chicago International Film Festival, Friars Club Comedy Film Festival, LA Shorts Festival, Chicago Outdoor Film Festival, and the Indianapolis International Film Festival. Close Quarters is Jack C. Newell’s first feature film. He currently is at working filming another improvised movie called Open Tables serving up some of the same tasty cast of characters as this one.

PAM VICTOR: What was your impetus for making cinematic order from improvisational chaos?

JACK C. NEWELL: That's a good question and is probably more of an involved answer than Close Quarters because I've been trying to do it since I went to improv classes at Second City and iO.

The simple answer is that with improvisation you get a fearlessness in the performance that I have not seen any one match in more "traditional" approaches to working with actors. I find most acting in most movies pretty bad because I want it to be more out of control, and improvisation gives you the fear in the eyes of  "This is really happening" that happens in real life.

PAM: You were going for a feeling of authenticity.

JACK: That is the much simpler way to say what I just said.

PAM: It is HARD to capture the magic of improv on the screen, I find. And half the time, the dang audience doesn't appreciate that it was made up on the spot.

JACK: I am less interested in that. Charlie Chaplin didn't let any photos or anything leak about how he did anything on set, and I like that idea of maintaining the illusion of film. There's some magic there still.

PAM: Tell me about your improv training. Did you go through all the levels at iO and Second City?

JACK: Yep. I performed but never got onto a team. Wasn't that good, ;-)

PAM: It takes a long time to get good. But it sounds like you got the bug. You became addicted to improv?

JACK: Addicted has a different spin on it than I would say. I really found that what it was trying to teach was good for me. Improv has way more applications than getting on stage or making a movie. It's a way of life. It made me a better director and actor and writer.

PAM: What shows were you watching at iO and Second City that made you think, "I need to make an improvised movie." (I'm sure the words in your head were different...and probably not in my voice.)

JACK: When I was a student at Second City Training Center, you could get into shows for free, so I went to Mainstage all the time. The show was Red Scare, and I must have seen it 30 times. And then stayed for the improv sets. The cast was Brian Gallivan, Mary Beth Monroe...I'm blanking on the other folks, which makes me a dick, but you can Google that. [The cast was Brian Boland, Brian Gallivan, Antoine McKay, Maribeth Monroe, Claudia Wallace and Jean Villepique, and the director was none other than Mr. Mick Napier, founder of Annoyance Theatre.]

I started actually to put together a feature film then, completely improvised based off a scenario-driven script I had written. It was an outline. We started rehearsing and all that. Then we lost our funding, and the movie catastrophically fell apart like a gigantic clusterfuck. And I had a good cast too: Mary Beth was in it, so was Molly Erdman, Joe Canale, Brian Galivan, Bob Kulhan. It was an ensemble piece, but was just way too much. And when we lost our money, everything else fell apart with it.

I really liked the Second City experience because they are working towards improv to a scene, right? Filmmakers are control freaks, so the idea that I could take improv, and then write something that was controlled was very appealing.

PAM: The cast of Close Quarters! (Dreamily sigh.) Dude, you scored some of the best and brightest of the Chicago improv world. How did you know who to ask? And how did you get them to say yes? (I suspect the answer to the second question simply was to ask. Improvisers are game for almost anything.)

JACK: I've been doing a lot of short film and short film work and that kept me in the world. I directed a couple years with MPZ (Maximum Party Zone) with Bill Arnett, Bobby Mort, and Danny Mora. We made a lot (A LOT) of videos - all on YouTube [Check ‘em out.]  People saw that, and saw that we were doing funny work.

For Close Quarters, I knew and worked with most of them before. I had worked with Tim Kazurinsky on a short film in March of 2010 [Typing,] and he and Dave Pasquesi are friends. When I knew I wanted Tim in, we also wanted Dave, and he put us in touch. And then Dave got us TJ.

Dave and TJ are in my next film too. We are filming now. 

PAM: I love love love TJ and Dave.

JACK: Everyone does.

PAM: But I like to think that I love them a little more.

JACK: I bet there's someone out there who hates them.

PAM: I am shuddering at the thought.

JACK: I am excited for the work Dave and TJ are doing in my next film. We wrapped Dave’s scenes earlier this week, and he brought some stuff I have not seen him bring in any other performances.

PAM: I just watched TJ's other movie, No Sleep Til Madison.

JACK: How is that? I haven't seen it.

PAM: TJ calls it “No Need to See It.” I enjoyed it. It was like looking at his baby photos.

TJ and his face

I have to tell you, I love watching TJ on the screen. I would happily have watched his scene with Kate Duffy for 90 minutes. TJ has a FACE.

JACK: A lot of people say that.

PAM: Really? That's interesting.

JACK: Oh yeah. I don't know if it's a compliment or complaint.

PAM: Haha!

JACK: The movie elicits a lot of different reactions, which I like. The idea going in was if we can score on one of these improvised scenarios, then we've really done something. I think we hit it pretty well on a number of them. Then we hit it out of the park with TJ and Kate. So I am pleased. If Close Quarters is an experiment, it was successful.

PAM: Well, one of my questions was a suggestion to make a movie of TJ and someone else or a few other people. He's very compelling. His vulnerability makes him likeable and his face is very, very funny.

JACK: So wait. You question was a suggestion? I'm...not seeing the question. You want me to make a movie with TJ? That sounds like a demand.

PAM: You're not the only control freak, Jack.

JACK: Ha!

Unpack that. You want a movie of TJ? Or his character from Close Quarters? Or what?

PAM: If I could take a moment to add, I am a solid improviser who transmits very well on film.

JACK: Duly noted.

PAM: [after pitching a few movie ideas that basically amount to improv porn for a very patient Jack] Back to your cast, did you audition anybody, or go to shows and cast from the audience?

Baristas in Close Quarters
played by Erica  Unger and Seth Unger

JACK: We held auditions for the baristas. They were the only scripted parts of the film. And actually Sherra Lasley (a bridesmaid) auditioned very well for the lady part. But we ended up casting two actors (who were married to each other) in the barista parts. I had worked with them before and knew them well.

PAM: I’m very interested in the process of developing and capturing the improvisation in Close Quarters. I know the actors were given a general plot outline for their scenes, and then you let them improvise off that in ten-minute increments, in between which you’d offer direction. Making order from the typical messiness of creation involved in improvisation is a quite a challenge. What part of the process surprised you most? What worked best? What would you change if you make another improvised movie?

JACK: This next one is similar in that there is improvisation in it done is the same way, where I wrote the scenario and they play with in that. The biggest things I want to change for the next film are do more with camera to tell story. For Close Quarters, we set up cameras and that shot is what we got. And, for me, it becomes a little stagnant, so, how do I use improvisation to get the best performances AND use camera more deliberately to make a better FILM? It's a tightrope because film and improv, in a lot of ways, are diametrically opposed, even when working with the best.

PAM:  Talk more about how film and improv are diametrically opposed.

JACK: Film is manual labor. It's obsessive and repetitive and heavy on the details that just take time to pull off. Improvisation is also about details, trying to capture them, but you can miss a moment because of the issues with film, like focus, lighting, camera moves, etc.

PAM: Plus film is forever. The magical part about improv is that it is momentary and not meant to be saved.

How did your original plot and vision change once the improvisers got a hold of the story?

JACK: Not much. For TJ and Kate’s scene, I knew when they came in their characters were friends, had little crushes on each other they never acted on. And they thought their significant others were cheating on them, but didn't know for sure. That's what I told them.

What I didn't tell them, but directed them towards, was the discoveries that make up the beats, and that at the end I knew they leave the coffee shop "in love.” What I didn't know, and what I wanted to use improvisation for, was the color of those beats and arc. We have the skeleton, now please fill it in with details, character, etc. So plot was known. HOW was not.

There’s a thing for directors, at least film directors, the script tells you when, where, why, who, and your only job is to fill in HOW. The big thing here, my HOW, was to really just find out on set…which is scary for producers and planners, etc. because if HOW had turned out SHITTY, then that'd be a problem.

PAM: The parallel in improv is that the only part the audience is really interested in is the "how." How people feel about each other. Relationship. Emotion.

JACK: Yeah. HOW is character.

PAM: So you got lucky that the “how” didn't turn out shitty?

JACK: Let's say we did all of what I just typed out, and the improv was shit. That's why it could have been scary.

PAM: Definitely. Though you stacked the deck with the cast. Did you know the personal history between TJ and Holly, who used to be a real life couple, when you cast her as his presumably soon-to-be estranged wife?

JACK: I think I knew, but it was deep in the back of my brain, and I did not do it because of that. And once cast was in place, it came up, but they are all pros, so it wasn't an issue. Plus they never share a scene together, so whatever.

PAM: Other couples with personal histories – Noah and Linda as spouses, TJ and Dave as close friends – parallel the characters of the movie. I assume that was intentional?

JACK: Noah is insanely good…and Linda brings such a fucking awesome approach to character. The funny thing about that scene was we had actually filmed that scene once before with five improvisers on the first day of filming. It wasn't shit, but it was too blue…They did a great job, but it was tonally incorrect for the rest of the film. It was raucous. So we reshot that scene and couldn't get everyone back, so Noah was actually added in then because he couldn't make it the first time. And it just so happened they were married. It wasn’t intentional really.

For TJ and Dave, the idea was that more people know "TJ and Dave" than know TJ or Dave, and I find that really uninteresting for my movie. I don't want people watching to be like, "It's a TJ and Dave show" in the middle of my movie. That’s not to say that I wouldn't put them in scenes together, but you know what I mean?

PAM: I think it's a more interesting choice to use their real life relationship as subtext.

Visually, the “picture frame” seemed to be a thematic element in this movie. For instance, the baristas serve through a frame. There are empty picture frames on the wall. The computer screens literally enclose the actors in that scene, Jim Carlson and Susan Messing. As the movie progresses, many of the actors are released from their frames. Can you talk to me about the picture frame as symbolism in Close Quarters?

JACK: Frames are one. Mirrors are another. And lenses/prisms too.

PAM: Hey! I had a mirror question! Now I can't use it and look like a smartypants.

JACK: Sorry.

PAM: I forgive you.

JACK: The plot of the movie is a romantic comedy, and romantic comedies at their heart are really about seeing someone in a new way, right? They hate each other and then they see them in a new way, and then they fall in love. So the idea for the movie was, how do we present that idea and make it more visual? Frames, mirrors, and prisms all change context and are metaphorical for reflection and understanding yourself and others. Each scenario has one or more of those working based on what I thought they were doing to the main barista plot.

All of the scenarios are essentially RIFFS off of what's happening with the barista, so if the baristas fight, then we build that with improv scenes, (i.e., Jim and Susan in therapy.)

PAM: In a related question, I am interested in your choice to utilize frequent double-frame shots. (I’m not sure what the technical movie term is for those side-by-side shots?) To me, it seemed to simulate the effect of sitting in a theater audience and being able to look where we want rather than being restricted to the one point of view given to us by the movie director. The mirrors serve that same purpose since often they allow the audience to see multiple angles, as they wish to change their focus. Is that close to what you were thinking or am I seeing it strangely? (Your answer could be “Both.”)

JACK: Yeah. Both.

There are a couple of answers. The split screen gives you two frames within the film frame, so it’s more on that. I use split screen a lot. I just like it. This split screen stuff makes the audience a more active participant in the movie and is more like the theater experience.

PAM: A parallel thematic element seems to be the idea of “watching.” The big-eyed cat clock is a recurrent transitional shot. The baristas are watching all the action unfold. One even teases the other, ease-dropping barista, “Take a picture. It will last longer.”

JACK: Oh, yeah. The baristas are voyeurs. And so are we.

PAM: I read that what started as a 40-page script expanded into a 500-page script once the improvisers were left to have their ways with it, resulting in forty hours of footage. Did you know how much of a bitch the movie would be to edit when you set out about the project?

JACK: No, I didn't really realize the scope until decisions were already made. It was like we shot a documentary. But that 500 page script is a bit of a misnomer. It was transcripts, like you do for docs, and from that we turned it into a paper edit. But the 40 hours of footage is right. And Jill, my editor, and myself had to go through all of it.

PAM: Brutal. That's intense.

Jet and Tim seemed to be the only ones where you used an over-the-shoulder shot. They seem, for the most part, un-framed. Ironically, they are the most optimistic relationship. Is there a connection there?

JACK: Yeah. The idea of them sharing frame is to tell the audience they are connecting. They have the car lights and glass behind them. Theirs is more complicated then the rest. It's "nuanced."

PAM: I found myself very charmed by Jet and Tim’s scene. The connection that evolved in front of the camera felt very authentic and genuine. Ironically, it was the most hopeful scene. Can you tell me about the development of that scene?

JACK: That came the furthest from the first edit of the film to what's in there now. The first passes on that scene just didn't work. The scenario is pretty wild and it just felt odd and not dramatic enough (which is weird because she was going to kill herself.) And his backstory is that he was also going to kill himself that night. And they met. It's a very movie-conceit idea.

PAM: Oooh. I didn't pick that up.

JACK: He actually dropped that in the improv, so it's not there. And I am glad and didn't push him to do it because what they DID do was sweet and touching and different.

PAM: But I got that there was something "off" in him that made him able to empathize with Jet's character.

JACK: Oh, yes. He's a mess.

PAM: But so sweet. They had a very nice connection. That scene was a lot about relationship, which I found delightful from an improviser's point of view.

JACK: And by the casting, you remove a sexual angle from it. (No offense to either of them.) But it's more about humans having a moment.

PAM: Interestingly also, they had never worked together.

JACK: That was the 'riskiest' casting because Tim is known for a certain style of play, "The Police Academy Effect,” and he's really good at it. But he's a director, a real REAL actor, a fantastic writer. He’s a renaissance man, so I wanted to do something different with him.

And Jet is also known for a very physical and weird (can I say weird?) style of play,  and I wanted to see her do something different. I have worked with Jet a bunch and think she's the bee's knees.

PAM: She is the bee's knees.

JACK: You can put that in your article. BEEs KNEEs.

PAM: Very funny.

On a very different note, let’s talk about the process of shooting in the bathroom that very intimate and intense scene with David Pasquesi and Holly Laurent.

JACK: It was hot. NEXT QUESTION.

PAM: Ha! I hope you mean sexually, but I assume you mean physically.

Holly Laurent in Close Quarters

JACK:  Not sexually. At all. That scene was the hardest to shoot because it goes so dark. It screwed me up for a few days and put me in a bad mood.

PAM: Why?

JACK: Well, we shot for an hour and a half.

PAM: Would it be fair to say you wouldn't allow them out of the room until the shoot was finished? That's what I told Dave, so I may have lied to Mr. Pasquesi.

JACK: That's right. I didn't want them leaving because i wanted it to be a pressure cooker. But remember, it's them in the room, then me and Stephanie (the DP) each operating a camera. And two lights. And the bathroom is small.

So we closed the door, and an hour and a half later walked out and it just got very dark and very negative. I mean, in the film it goes dark for the last 30 minutes, but we only go back to them a couple of times. So it’s like four minutes or so of them being assholes to each other. We were in that negative space for a long time.

David Pasquesi in Close Quarters

PAM: Dave's character was a dick. I mean, he forces her to out the relationship and then dumps her.

JACK: Yeah, I think it's real what he does. I think it reveals character.

PAM: It's the dirty underside of a romantic comedy.

JACK: It's not clean because it never is. But the direction for me in that scene is, "Be meaner, cut deeper." And then about three-quarters of the way in, Dave was like, "I don't think we can go any meaner." And then I kept rolling. And they did. That's where we got those last lines for them in the movie.

Interestingly, they were the only two improvisors we let read the script. No one else was allowed to know anything at all - they all agreed to do it, without seeing anything. Then on set, I told them only what they knew coming into the shop, and then directed as went.

PAM: I wouldn't want to play against Dave being a dick. I give Holly a lot of credit. That had to have been tough.

JACK: Yeah, she's great. I love how she played it. Some people have told me they think she's not active enough, but I think her inactivity and 'stuck in the middle-ness' works. Their scene breaks my heart.

PAM: It's real. It's one of those moments in life when you think back on and wish you had said or done this or that. And you beat yourself up for being such a pussy.

JACK: Totally. I love it when she says, "This was just a regular night." And it's silent for a moment. Because we all have that, when we have a moment of perspective and you see for a moment over the clouds, and you say, "How did I put myself in this position? This mess?" Their scene is purgatory. They are in limbo, stuck between choices.

Holly is great. Love her. She and Jet have been in a bunch of my movies.

PAM: Oh yeah? That's cool. I love them together. The Reckoning. Amazing group.

That leads to this question....Some of the scenes, like the two couples after the funeral and the three bitchy girls, are “slices of life” scenes. Others, like TJ/Kate and Dave/Holly’s, are “Today’s the day” scenes. In improv, we sometimes evaluate each scene by asking, “Why are we here today? Why are we in this moment now?” Holly even says in the movie, “Everything changes from now on.” Did you use that idea in the development of the story lines?

JACK: I think of Close Quarters as a meal. We are trying for the perfect meal in every movie. You have your cuisine choice, French or Italian (baristas,) and the improvised scenes are the food of the meal. Kate and TJ, Dave and Holly are the meat. Potatoes are the mourners. Your broccoli is Jet and Tim, and then for garnishes and sauces you have the bitchy girls and the old guys. So cutting the film is like eating your way around your plate. “I want to eat a piece of meat with some potato. Now what does it taste like with just a garnish? Now some broccoli.”

PAM: I'm hungry now.

JACK: I am too!

PAM: Your movie is a pu-pu platter. I get it.

JACK: The less flowery answer is that some of the storylines were meatier and it was obvious. We expected them to be as such in how we filmed them. The bridesmaids are a one trick pony scene. The trick is to just do that one thing really well with them.

PAM: They play the "game" of the scene, which is being bitchier and bitchier.

JACK: Yeah, their job in the film is to allow laughter release for all the heaviness of the other scenes.

PAM: (I swear, my heart is still hurting from remember the Dave and Holly scene. Can you please make a behind-the-scenes cut when they love each other?)

On a brighter note, I loved Bill Arnett in this movie. Did you write his lines or was that his invention?

JACK: Hah! I have thought about a sequel: Bill Arnett is the male character. He has zero lines.

PAM: LOL. It would be a hit. He could pull it off.

JACK: In the script, the character is given some lines, but not enough. So I said, "He should either speak or not." Similarly, it'd be weird if Harpo Marx talked in some scenes but not others.

PAM: Yeah. There is a show like that at iO West. It's called Middle Seat. It takes place in a three-person row of an airplane. The people on the end seats know each other. The guy in the middle, who is always played by the same improviser, never says anything. It's fantastic.

Back to the movie, the online therapy element – where Bill Arnett is playing a therapist giving online marriage counseling to two people (played by Susan Messing and Jim Carlson) who are seen on their own individual screens. This dynamic is an interesting structure to lie on top of the coffee shop set up. Why not have the three of them meeting in person? It feels like you laid the premise of online therapy on top of the structure of a coffee shop longform structure.

JACK: The idea is that the coffee shop is this weird private/public space, and what's more private than therapy? (Well, sex - but we got that too.) It’s a sight gag too, for him to pull out one computer, then another. That always gets such an unexpected laugh. It's just a different way of doing it that allowed us to push their characters further because it's in the context of this weird therapy session.

PAM: Susan Messing told me she came downstairs the other day to find her husband watching the movie again. [Susan is newly married to iO improviser/teacher Michael Clayton McCarthy.] He said it’s like a time capsule of the people who came to their wedding. That's sweet and ultimately very complimentary to you and her.

JACK: Yeah, she is in my new movie and told me that, and I was like, "That's really weird."

PAM: Shut. Up. Susan is in your new movie too? You get all the best players!

JACK: Why bother doing it if you don't get the best?

PAM: Please make sure her hair is nice in this movie. That's her request, not mine.

JACK: Hah. It’s actually not. It's kind of all over the place.

PAM: Good, because I think she is wicked sexy when she looks like she just rolled out of bed.

The soundtrack is adorable, featuring songs by lesser-known artists, like Branches and Em and Them. How did you go about collecting these songs?

JACK: I wanted to have it be in real time, an hour and a half almost in real time. Coffee shops play songs start to finish, so we had to get 25 songs or something like that. My sound designer, Marina Bacci is in the music scene here, and she and I worked together on a playlist. We just picked songs we liked, and then narrowed it down to let the songs over all vibe match or play against what was happening on screen. It was actually very improvisationally placed for the music. We just threw it in and a lot of the times. Where things line up is total accident.

PAM: What is the wide release plan for Close Quarters? How will regular, non-festival-goer people be able to see it? Will it eventually be on Netflix?

JACK: Great question.

PAM: Thank you.

JACK: Right now, you can see it on the Chicago Comedy Film Festival website for $2.99. But we haven't gotten anything locked in for Netflix or iTunes. I don't own the film, so it’s out of my hands a bit.

PAM: I hope it comes out on Netflix soon.

JACK: Shit, girl. Me too. I have not figured out how to make that happen yet, even with good festival screenings and nice words.

PAM: What's the name of your next movie with TJ and Dave? And when can I get to feast on it with my hungry eyes?

JACK: The next film is called Open Tables. I am writing and directing. I am hoping to submit to festivals in July/August, 2013.

 [Jack and I start wrapping up the interview.]

PAM:  Thank you!

JACK: I hope I was able to help you to geek out. I have another minute. Do you have any other questions? Don't hesitate.

PAM: Oh great. I do my closer and then you ask for an encore...

JACK: I just want to make sure you are getting what you need/want from me. For your mission.

PAM: Hahaha! Did someone tell you that I view my geek out sessions as good sex? Because you're being very accommodating.

JACK: I view everything as good sex. Milkshakes. Raccoons.

PAM: Ha! ESPECIALLY raccoons.

JACK: Don't tell the raccoon.

PAM: I think I got everything I needed. I am very satisfied. Thank you, Jack C. Newell. 

* * *

To watch Close Quarters

for the well-worth-it price of only $2.99,

go to the Chicago Comedy Festival website.

The bargain of the century.

To own your very own copy, send a $25 check payable to

NEFARIOUS PRODUCTIONS to:

Nefarious Productions

6435 West Jefferson Blvd #130

 Fort Wayne, IN 46804

(Include "ship to" address.)

Check out more about Jack C. Newell’s

next improvisationally inspired film, Open Tables 
featuring Kate Duffy, TJ Jagodowski, Colleen Doyle, David Pasquesi, Joel Murray 
and so many more tasty improvisators: 
https://www.facebook.com/OpenTablesMovie 

or www.opentablesmovie.com.

* * *

Read Geeking Out with...Susan Messing  
in which Susan says,
"I am not for the faint of heart, 
but if you can handle the messenger 
you'll definitely get the message."

Catch up on past improv geek-a-thons:
Geeking Out with…Dave Pasquesi  of TJ and Dave

...David Razowsky of iO West

…with Joe Bill of BASSPROV

...Jet Eveleth of The Reckoning

...TJ Jagodowski of TJ and Dave 

and many more!

And "like" the "Geeking Out with..." FACEBOOK PAGE please.

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she produces The Happier Valley Comedy Show in western Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies, and tea on her blog, "My Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page! And get it all at www.pamvictor.com.